The closest I’ve got to a conversation with Joanna Angel is staring at her while she worked the Hustler booth only to realize I was daydreaming, I’d been staring in her direction for a solid minute and she now thought I was an inept stalker.
Despite the lack of ‘I don’t know your name but your blog makes me hot and I want to work with you’ chemistry I’ve spent more time thinking about Joanna – clothed – in the last week than anyone else on the planet. In quoting a statement I thought made her seem less ‘alt’ than most would have guessed I opened the door to a torrent of feedback from people horrified I’d make such a ‘baseless’ accusation against indie-porns reigning champion.
The public apology which followed (because I could have been wrong – remember ‘96?) caught the eye of Tristan Taormino, who’d initially supplied me with the quote I’d printed. She was upset by Darien Train (of ‘Burning Angel‘ Joanna’s website) who claimed that I’d misinterpreted part of a scripted exchange in her movie.
Somehow my apology had managed to upset people too. It was farcical (The priest was still in the closet with his trousers down while my boss was making advances towards my wife in the kitchen and I’d managed to catch the curtains in my flies!)
Tristan has gone to the trouble of explaining exactly what went on in a way that both backs my initial point and points out that Joanna – when reflecting on her own assumptions – turns out to be just as smart as her fans had assumed.
Everyone wins and we have one of those freeze-frames where Tristan, Joanna, Darien and I laugh uproariously as the end credits roll.
Sitting comfortably? Here’s the final chapter…
Sam:
I feel the need to respond to this hoopla since it’s the interview you did with me and my movie, Tristan Taormino’s House of Ass, that figures prominently in this. The quote you refer to (which wasn’t the exact quote) from Joanna WAS NOT STAGED and WAS NOT SCRIPTED as someone said in a post. Nothing anyone said was. Here is how it went:
In the confessional booth, I asked her if she did interracial. She responded by telling the story of how she was asked to fill out a form by an agent. The form included what she would and wouldn’t do in a scene (girl/girl, anal, etc.), and interracial was a category (as it is industry-wide).
She said, “I have never fucked a black guy in my personal life so I thought it would be weird to do it on camera for the first time. So I said, no, I guess I don’t do interracial.” Then, she openly questioned herself in saying, “Does it make me racist if I will let some white stranger come on my face and not a black one?”
It was a profound moment, and I thought it was important to put it in the movie for several reasons:
1) When was the last time you heard someone be so brutally honest, especially about race, in a porn movie? The fact that she even acknowledged that to check or not check the box had greater implications than whether she checked the “boy/boy/girl scenes” box was significant.
2) I thought it was bold and brave of Joanna to challenge herself on such a loaded issue. And when she said it, I not only interpreted it as an open-ended question she was asking herself, but as a question she was asking all performers who don’t do interracial scenes. She was challenging the viewer as well, I think.
3) This discussion happened in the beginning of the two-day shoot. By the next day, she had hung out with Mr. Marcus, gotten to know him, and had real chemistry with him. She defied the “no interracial” check box on the form and she fucked him. And it was a great scene.
I respect each and every porn performer’s choice to do what they want to do and not do what they don’t want to do. Some female performers’ choice not to work with black men may be fueled by racism, but not every woman who makes the choice is automatically racist. That is unfair and reductive. I don’t believe Joanna is racist. I do believe that she put herself out there on a hot button topic, and her comment (like any other comment) is open to multiple interpretations. Calling her racist is not only taking the entire thing out of context, it’s a cheap shot. One that doesn’t take into account just how deeply layered and complex racism and the representation of race are in the adult industry and in this country.
I hoped that Joanna’s question would be a question to us all, and, along with Mr. Marcus’ commentary in the DVD extras about racism, would spark some much-needed thoughtful dialogue on the subject. Instead, it was used to stir up shit and perpetuate a tired racist/non-racist dichotomy. It’s time we stopped name-calling and elevated the conversation.
I now count the days until ‘Joanna Angel’s Dark and Milky Bootysplosion’ hits the shelves.
Popularity: 41% [?]
Y’know, I think I remember reading this background context in Naked Ambition, come to think of it.
Wow Sabrina. That books been being written for so long that’s amazing. I remember interviews for that back in 2002-3.
Heh. I did say think… Did I mention the head injury? But I did read it somewhere before. Hmm.
I’m happy I decided to actually hit my Sugarbank bookmark today – Yahoo had me believing you hadn’t updated in several days. I’m glad the situation has been explained, so that I might happily fap to Ms. Angel in the future.
>Some female performers’ choice not to work with black men may be fueled by racism, but not every woman who makes the choice is automatically racist.
ebogjonson – I’d like to point out that anyone who makes a decision about a category of person which is defined only by their race is the very definition of a racist.
If I say I don’t date Chinese women I’m a racist as all I know about Chinese women is that they’re Chinese, thus I’m discriminating against them based soley on assumptions about what that means.
If I say I don’t date short women, I might be a prick but I’m not a racist. Assuming all Chinese women are short is the assumption that turns fact based choice into racist shit.
What could any woman say is true of all black men which is reason to discriminate against them? Allergy to melatonin?
I don’t know about the melatonin thing, but I will say this: I never hook up with Jewish girls. Being Jewish myself, I’m tend to be struck, midway through the deed, with the scary thought that this is what it must have been like to schtupp my Aunt Phyllis (may G-d rest her soul).
At which point I stop and demand, through my tears, that she make me some kugel and nibble my toes like my aunt used to.
It’s always an awkward situation, and they rarely make the kugel right.
zero – I’ve had a bunch of Jewish girlfriends but I think it’s coincidental. Since one of my old girlfriends died I’ve stopped dating cadavers. However great the sex was – too many painful memories…
SSugar: We’re (kind of) in agreement. My original comment was truncated, likely due to an ill positioned less-than sign.
My point is narrowly focused on Tristan Toriamo’s BS comment that one can legitimately not work with black men and not be a racist. I don’t buy it. What possible reason could you have? Any performer who refuses to work with someone of any given race is a racist for the very reasons you outlined in your comment, but Tristan thinks that’s “reductive?”
What I’m confused about is your use of Toriamo’s letter in your post. It seems that you’re endorsing her muddled racial thinking. My own reading of Taormino’s comment is that she’s basically fine with racist decision making (I don’t work with black men) on the notion that Joanna’s really a dear, that and using the r-word about people she likes is “reductive.” (Because alt-ass theorist Tristan Taormino, would NEVER be associated with any racists! Perish the thought!)
Seriously, whatever. Every disgusting racist on the planet can be a dear as long as you’re not the object of their hatred,
Taormino’s notion of “brutal honesty” deeply bores me, that when it doesn’t annoy me. White folks are always passing off peeks into their dusty, racial cellars as “brutal honesty” and I could personally really give a flying fuck. Work that shit out in private on your own time, and if you intend to pursue public profit off it (like by including it your doc) don’t get mad if the world calls you on it. This fetish for “honesty” and “complexity” is classic alt-yackity smack racism that allows white folks who should know better to avoid taking their friends, neighbors, family, etc to task for their BS.
Its 2006. I’m not interested in Joanna Angel’s learning process about racism. This is a common cycle:
1- white person says something stupid
2 – white person gets shit for said stupid comment
3 – other white people defend initial idiocy as part of white learning process
You guys should be honest and just admit that all this stuff – the docs, the movies, the blogs – are for white folks about white folks and that’s it. That way I can go through my day without being blindsided.
ebogjonson. I’m not a racist and therefore there’s no ‘you guys’ in this whole deal.
I printed Tristan’s response in full as a courtesy. I do not agree with her statements RE: race, as framed above, I pointed out in an earlier comment.
I don’t know Joanna but I do know we all have prejudices and it’s the brave and honest who confront them in themselves. I know I have preconceived ideas about people of other ethnicities and I know they’re wrong. Knowing that helps me put them aside when I realize they might be an influence. You can test people’s prejudice pretty simply (Malcolm Gladwell wrote about it at length in ‘Blink’) – we’re all prejudiced.
That said I think racists are limited individuals who lack enough objective reasoning power to make their opinion on anything worthwhile.
I’m not going to make a decision about Joanna because I have nothing to go on. I’ve said some outrageous shit I wouldn’t want people to take as a true reflection of my personality and I’m honored to be the subject of a couple of Sarah Silverman jibes back when she played the ‘M’ bar in LA. Like many you could paint me as a racist sexist asshole only using direct quotes and videotape.
So ebog (I can call you ebog right?) I’m with you.
Tristan’s an intelligent person and, as you’ll hear in my interview with her (next week?), she thinks about things. Whatever she’s written, I think I’m safe in saying she wouldn’t describe racial discrimination as anything but racism.
Fair enough. Given the fact that you raised this issue in the first place (I wouldn’t have known about it but for you and Laughing Dude), it was unfair and careless of me to include you (Sam) in the proverbial “you guys” (which, BTW, I was using as shorthand for “white folks” NOT as shorthand for “racists”.)
We are still going to have to agree to disagree on this notion that “the brave and honest who confront [prejudices] in themselves.” In my experience, TT’s “brutal honesty” is a mediocre, self-serving standard (both intellectually and morally), in that it mostly exists to allow white folks to pat themselves on the back for “bravery” while doing next to no actual work in the real world. Truly brutal honesty involves a hard conversation among equals where folks put themselves at genuine risk, but whatever risk that might have attended this particular situation has been dissolved a warm bath of fuzzies (not to mention networking, product placement and log-rolling.) I mean, I’m really glad that Joanna Angel and TT and whoever else has been able to go on this wonderful, deeply introspective journey through RaceLand and all; just please don’t get mad at me for pointing out that they’re all still just talking to themselves about themselves, this after claiming they were discussing their complicated relationships to, well, me.
Or put another way: I actually know that you’re (Sam) with me; what I’m saying is that I don’t think those two alt-cheerleaders are with us. You did a brave thing by setting off a dissonace bomb in the middle of (what I imagine is) your social and professional peer group. And I know it gets hot in that particular kitchen (especially in insular media communities), that it can be dicey to say “I think your comment was borderline racist” and “please be in my podcast!” in the same convo. But now you’re like a guy with a tray standing at the foot of a cafeteria, this on the day after some ugly racial shit has gone down. I am trying to make eye contact with you and instead you’re busy coming up with reasons why sitting with, like, them, is the right thing to do. “She thinks about things” isn’t a reason, friend; in our imagined, hypothetical community it’s just showing up. and no one deserves props for it.
ebogjonson – again well made points.
I’m just trying to give everyone the benefit of the doubt. It’s pretty harsh to convict people, in their absence, based on such a little information. Calling someone a bigot is serious stuff and not useful if poorly aimed.
You could be right of course – and I certainly started this – but you could be wrong too. I’d argue someone’s actions are a far truer proof of their character than their statements and words are all we have to go on. You’re making assumptions too. If you didn’t think (know!?) I was a white male it might change the tenor of my statements. Such is the inaccuracy of type and that’s what we’ve got to account for.
(NB: This isn’t anything other than an interesting fact. Following Mr. Marcus’ scene with Joanna in Tristan’s movie he’s gone of to play POTUS in ‘Joanna’s Angels 2′ – made long before all this stuff.)
Thanks for the compliments on the contrary nature of the blog. It’s supposed to entertain and start debate. I’ll leave maintaining the porn hive-mind to others.
Anyway. Meet you at the barricades…